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Conflux brings us the epitome of unplayable: Progenitus

January 17, 2009

Coming in at a casting cost of (W)(W)(U)(U)(B)(B)(R)(R)(G)(G) we have Progenitus. He is a Legendary, 10/10, Hydra. This is the part that makes him an interesting creature: “Protection from Everything” as well as Darksteel’s whole ‘shuffle me back into your library if I go into the graveyard for any reason’ deal.

Everyone realizes Dramatic Entrance is a viable way to cheat this Mythic rare into play, but other than that. 10 casting cost? I really am losing faith in this nearly childish approach to Mythic rares. It is like they are using the Mythic rarity to just print those creatures and spells that they have always wanted to make. Protection from Everything is a bit of a Timmy ability, and I don’t understand why they didn’t add “This spell can’t be countered by spells or abilities”. So if you plan on casting this puppy the old fashioned way, I would suggest inviting, Vexing Shusher or a simple counterspell will send this creature back into your library.

So, “Protection from Everything”, sounds pretty crazy. What does it mean for us? It can’t be blocked by any creature, targeted by any spell or ability what-so-ever, enchanted by anything or damaged by any source that can be prevented. You can deal with it with some kind of wrath effect of course. Unfortunately he doesn’t have protection from world effects. “No, no. See it says ‘Protection from Everything'”! Sorry, Timmy, that Martial Coup will destroy your silly Hydra and send it crying back into your 85 card deck, and no I will not help you shuffle it.

Also, it feels like Keeper of Progenitus should have been doubling the mana for all land types in order to cast this sleeping monster. Or at least see the ten casting cost in just Naya color like (W)(W)(W)(G)(G)(G)(G)(R)(R)(R). 

EDIT: I have thought of a great way for a turn 4, Progenitus. Turn one Birds of Paradise/Llanowar Elves or the new Noble Heirarch. Turn two Prismatic Omen and another Bird/Elves drop. Turn three Keeper of Progenitus. With your lands producing double of any color due to the synergy between the Keeper and the Omen, each land is a Forest, Plains and Mountain at the same time, as well as an Island and a Swamp, therefore you can tap them for double of any color. Turn 4 you tap out and cast Progenitus. Another option is also Hellkite Overlord.

confluxteaserartWe all remember this guy. His name is Apocalypse Hydra. He is a bit more playable than his big brother. A casting cost of (X)(R)(G), a 0/0, and he comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on him. If X was 5 or greater, he comes into play with double the amount +1/+1 counters on him instead. Also, 1(R): remove a +1/+1 counter from Apocalypse Hydra to deal 1 damage to target creature or player. So for 7 mana, 5 of it can be any color, a 10/10 that can deal some cool ping damage. I kind of like it. Kind of wish it had devour incorporated to get even more counters, but this is a Naya based Hydra, not Jund. Shame. Either way, Apocalypse Hydra is only good if you pay 7 for him. Imagine if you could only pay 6 mana to cast him. You get a 4/4 hydra that can’t afford to remove any +1/+1 counters. Gilder Bairn is that you?

Last little spoiler I want to share with you today is Thornling. My friends and I are enjoying the thought of this guy. A green Morphling, no way! His abilities are pretty damn cool. Although he doesn’t have an untap ability like the other Morphling-esque creatures, he is sweet in his own respect at a casting cost of 3(G)(G).

(G): Gains haste until end of turn.

(G): Gains trample until end of turn.

(G): Is indestructible until end of turn.

(1): +1/-1

(1):-1/+1

At a power and toughness of 4/4, he can last longer than the others in combat. 7/1 Indestructible Trampler. Neat. Excited to see the art on this guy because they are consistently putting out phenomenal artwork for this set. 

I was glad to see the great discussion that, Norm over at Casual Magic, set up after reading my article on the spoiling of the title track for the set and the disappointment surrounding the Mythic rarity. It pretty much got a response that there are many magic players just reading Mythic rares and then sitting there with their heads shaking back and forth in disappointment. Was Rafiq the only non-Planeswalker, Mythic, that is actually cool and playable? It seems like this just might be the case. I am also hoping this all changes when they eventually spoil Mirror-Sigil Sergeant. I love those Rhinos.

I know you have thoughts on all of this, so let others hear it and drop a comment.

Bon Voyage,

Dillon

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17 Comments leave one →
  1. January 17, 2009 2:47 pm

    Progenitus is an awesome card to see printed but at the same time is unplayable at all. This is an example of good use of mythic raririty because fortunately you don’t get too many of them at drafts so you can get real playable cards 🙂 About Apocalypse hydra, it results better card than Progenitus and real playable. You can see +1/+1 counters mechanics in Extended and Standard. Thornling is the third of five posible xxx-ings (Morphling, Torchling, Thornling), so maybe in next blocks the will appear the white or black xxx-ings.

  2. Tame Nacatl permalink
    January 18, 2009 3:40 pm

    Progenitus doesn’t look seem to be that great.. bummer.
    Finally a spitting Hydra.. i will be able to shoot those pesky Akrasan Squires down.

  3. Dillon permalink*
    January 20, 2009 12:35 am

    @cadenadebronce3: have you ever seen Windreaver?

    @tame nacatl: awesome name, and yes, that hydra will be very good at gnawing on those tiny guys with exalted (as the picture for him so strongly implies)

  4. January 20, 2009 1:57 am

    Ok, Windreaver is one of the Morphling kind but is a multicolor one and no -ling ending :), I mean it would be nice to see a white and a black morphling coming up soon in Magic to close the monocolor -ling cycle, as we have seen for instance with monocolor atogs.

  5. Kirk permalink
    January 23, 2009 3:12 pm

    They spoiled the mirror rhino… and he’s pretty amazing. I assume if he survives a few turns – even his copies begin to make copies. He’s either removed or it’s probably game. I’d hate to think what happens if you cast a followed footsteps on him – or the card that gives you multiple upkeeps a turn from future site or planer.

  6. Like, duh, obviously permalink
    January 25, 2009 1:57 pm

    Natural Order. Turn 3 Progenitus.

    Good game.

  7. chrisv2121212 permalink
    February 7, 2009 9:35 am

    ffs you can play this card so many ways you can be a moron and figure out how to play these cards to play progenitus turn 4.

    step 1. find an elvish piper/bloom tender/ or the angel from conflux.
    step 2. wait for your opponent to end his turn for the piper and piper that shit in. or for tender get enough mana and hard cast his ass, or the angel whenever she deals damage put a card into play from your hand without paying it’s mana cost. If you all were smart enough to figure that out.

  8. chrisv2121212 permalink
    February 23, 2009 5:38 pm

    And you also can use dramatic entrance which states (put a green card from your hand into play) there is few known ways to beat someone with progenitus on the field, and that you can figure out for yourselves, im only 15 but i can figure this stuff out better then a lot of people that have been palying this game for years, i have been playing for 2 months.

  9. Chris permalink
    February 24, 2009 10:19 am

    Progenitus is a great card for casual, but not likely to see tournie play. I can think of a hundred ways to get it turn 5 or sooner, turn 3 at quickest. You just need 3 lands, 2 elves or bops, dramatic entrance and of course progenitus. Voila, turn 3 GG. Well, at least until you get hit with cruel edict. Or gravepact. Or WOG, Austere Command, Cruel Ultimatum.

    Pre-conflux I’ve managed to hit a great draw to play him turn 4 consisting of:

    Turn 1: Forest, BoP
    Turn 2: Mountain, Bloom Tender, Duergar Assailant (Figure of Destiny if you’re rich)
    Turn 3: Land, Oona’s Gatewarden, then tap Bloom for 5 and a forest for Mana Reflection.

    That was as far as I got with it because I didn’t have anything big to play afterwards. It goes great with Chameleon Collossus though.

    It can be done, but it takes the right draw. It’s not always GG when it hits the table, but it sure puts a clock on your opponents.

  10. Some Guy You Don't Know permalink
    March 27, 2009 5:06 am

    You could alsos use the Lorwyn lands that have the Hideaway effect with Progenitus to bust it out for 1 mana as long as the conditions are met. Attacking with 3 or more creatures is the requirement of one of them. That’s easy to pull off.

  11. ghost permalink
    April 2, 2009 1:38 am

    ok, what i think people are underestimating is the powerhouse that he is, a t5 virtually unstoppable 10/10 is amazing. in a W/G deck i find iwant more of him.
    T1:forest, skyshroud ranger
    T2:plain or forest, rampant growth, then tap ranger for another land in play (4)
    T3: play a piper or deathrender and a land
    T4:(5) equip deathrender to ranger (2) then summon gluttonus ooze to devour ranger and play pro.
    or my martial coup progenitus combo is mean too.
    stack mana get two deathrends on two creatures with a progen and wiltleaf in your hand blow the field with coup then play pro and wilt with renders pro is a 12/12 wilt leaf is a 5/6 and all your soldier tokens are 2/2….gg?

    • April 2, 2009 10:06 am

      Deathrender won’t equip to Progenitus because he has protection from it. Also, Deathrender won’t cheat Progenitus into play because when Deathrender’s ability checks the creature coming into play, if it can’t equip to it then it will return the creature back to your hand.

  12. Gheta permalink
    April 11, 2009 1:24 pm

    Actually Deathrender does work with it.

    For one Deathrender doesn’t Equip to a creature it brings into play, it attaches to a creature, which doesn’t target so the protection doesn’t stop it, Protection removes auras and equipment though, so it would just attach to it then instantly remove itself.

    Protection only stops Targeting, Damage, and being Blocked from sources. It wouldn’t stop an attachment, it would just end it (rule 502.7c, 502.7d).

    …and even if you WERE right and it couldn’t attach to Progenitus, it would still cheat him into play, it wouldn’t return him back to your hand – only nonlegal targets fizzle a spell or ability and this isn’t targeting anything, you just skip over the attach process.

    • April 11, 2009 6:40 pm

      http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/17072_The_Riki_Rules_Two_Scoops_and_a_Sprinkle_of_Conflux.html

      Scroll to the part about Conflux if you are still unsure about Deathrender’s ability.

      Your makeshift mannequin idea will not work, as well as your doomed necromancer plan. His ability is a replacement effect, he never goes to the graveyard. By the way, even though the other ways to get Progenitus into play are indeed feasible, they are only viable in a vacuum.

      Every person says “Elvish Piper, ftw!” when, please people, the thing dies to everything. A fragile 1/2 for 3(G) that has to sit there for a turn defenseless. If you think a dirt slow deck that attempts to get Progenitus out by *cough* 5th turn is “playable” then by all means, bring it to FNM and try and get there against Faeries, Blightning, Bant, Tokens, Boat Brew, anything. You will find something out that is very odd. It won’t be successful.

      Progenitus is big, and nearly unplayable in Standard. You will see it in Legacy, but seeing as how you do not grasp the rules very well, I wouldn’t venture down that road.

  13. Gheta permalink
    April 11, 2009 2:52 pm

    I also want to say, people don’t realize it, but in these recent gold/hybrid mana sets – Progenitus is so easy to play, and if you play Type 1 or 1.x/1.5, you’ll cheat him out like nothing causing fast wins if you tried.

    Type 2 Quick to semi-quick ways to bring it out:

    -Double Kaleidostone, or use one with Keeper of Progenitus.
    -A quick Maelstrom Archangel.
    -Mayael the Anima in Naya with quick mana.
    -Dramatic Entrance
    -Impromtu Raid (1 turn)
    -Mana Reflection with multicolor mana production
    -Prismatic Omen or Joiner Adept with mana production
    -Deathrender
    -Fertile Grounds, Overgrowth,
    -Hideaway lands
    -Makeshift Manekin it in response to it’s effect triggering, it can’t be the target of a spell or ability so it won’t die from it.
    -Doomed Necromancer it in response
    -Elvish Piper
    -Quickly build up the mana with Upwelling

    Type 2 Ways to stop of it (if to the graveyard, won’t be permanent):

    -Malfegor
    -Hallowed Burial
    -Wrath of God
    -Any counterspell
    -Keep a mana open for Circle of Protection
    -Pariah something indestructable or something that prevents damage
    -Make opponent Sacrifice Creatures (like with Fleshbag Marauders)
    -Steal it with Gather Specimens (XD)
    -Scourglass
    -Destroy your own Child of Alara
    -Fracturing Gust w/ Enchanted Evening
    -Mirrorweave another creature then own Prog.
    -Runed Halo (call Progenitus)
    -Worldpurge
    -Battletide Alchemist w/ cleric deck
    -couple ways with Austere Command
    -Evacuation
    -Plague Wind
    -Platinum Angel
    -Sunken Hope them and rid of their other creatures
    -Time Stop them in response to playing Progenitus
    -Warp World (may fail)
    -Kill the opponent of course lol

  14. Gheta permalink
    April 17, 2009 7:54 pm

    Yea you’re right about the equip ruling though it is confusing.

    …and you’re right about his effect being a prevention effect, I didn’t even read that part properly, I know what a prevention effect is.

    But you are wrong about one thing. It still cheats Progenitus into play, both the Gatherer and this guy even say so. I may have goofed on two rules honestly, and i don’t want to sound mean, but yours was just… newbish

    There is nothing in magic that goes… omg back up for a sec and just return it because you can’t complete the rest of the card. The only thing even close to that is fizzling a spell, and even that doesn’t back the effect up and redo effects, it fizzles from the start. Spells and Abilities only fizzle when a target is illegal, and Deathrender doesn’t target, therefor you play its effects until you can no longer.

    Also, I play block constructed mostly, not type 2 anymore, and faeries rocking type 2 doesn’t mean every other deck sucks and bringing a prog. 3rd turn blows. If you ask me from my 15 years of experience, bringing out a crazy early progenitus WILL win someone the game.

    Turn 1: Forest, Llanowar
    Turn 2: Forest, Llanowar, Heritage, maybe another 1 costing Elf
    Turn 3: Forest, There is 7 green mana. Epic Proportions, Mana Reflection, Dramatic Entrance, even against Faeries it shouldn’t be too hard with early game trickery and/or smarts. Maybe haste an elvish piper and drop Prog. use 1 or 2 to get prog then epic prop.

    It can be pretty common too if you build a whole deck around him, but that’s lame… also… there is one bad thing about this… elves are wack lol. That would be like making a different take on a sliver deck (which have all been done, trust me) and trying to give yourself credit.

    Scared of faeries? try using 4 of the anti-counter goblin for prog. green/red has alot of anti counter now especially when Alara Reborn comes out. Another thing you can do is just keep playing the rest of your deck with a poker face, and wait for a faerie deck to finally tap out to counter something else or play something great then strike… I mean a 10/10 will win it easily near the beginning – especially since most decks have nothing to stop it with.

  15. November 20, 2009 12:45 am

    back before lorwyn phased out a i ran a deck that could third turn the beast turn 1 land, turn 2 land devoted druid 3 rd turn land double tap devoted add the other 3 theres your 5 mana needed to cast dramatic entrance, the idea was god to any aggro deck, then i ran into cruel control so i changed it to “BUG” nicknamed for its black, blue, green construction it ran vivid lands, diabolic tutor, countersqualls the idea being to make his arrival unstoppable to even the most potent control decks, it worked if you actually countered the first dramatic chances where that your not gonna do it again… fun deck but now it extinct 🙂

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